Support for Dionex IC's ?

kjbu

<p>Hi!</p><p></p><p>Our large chromatographic network are getting an increasing amount of Ion Chromatography (IC) instruments from Dionex.</p><p>All our LC and GC's are controlled by Empower 2 FR5, but the increasing amount of IC's must use Dionex Chromeleon software.</p><p></p><p>This is a sad thing, because we want to use the same chromatographic software on all instruments.</p><p></p><p>* Empower can be used for all our GC's and HPLC's, but <strong>not</strong> Dionex IC's <span __jive_emoticon_name="sad" __jive_macro_name="emoticon" class="jive_macro jive_macro_emoticon" height="1" src="/4.0.8/images/emoticons/sad.gif" width="1"></span></p><p>* Chromeleon can be used for all our GC's, HPLC's and IC's, but I don't want to exchange our Empower-network with Chromeleon.</p><p></p><p>Are there any plans of supporting IC's from Dionex, so I can remove our growing Chromeleon network? <span __jive_emoticon_name="cry" __jive_macro_name="emoticon" class="jive_macro jive_macro_emoticon" height="1" src="/4.0.8/images/emoticons/cry.gif" width="1"></span></p><p></p><p>Kind regards,</p><p>- kjbu</p><p></p><p>PS! A future sight : Waters and Dionex build a new company for chromatographic software : Empower+Chromeleon = Emeleon <span __jive_emoticon_name="grin" __jive_macro_name="emoticon" class="jive_macro jive_macro_emoticon" src="/4.0.8/images/emoticons/grin.gif"></span></p>

Dot

Hello,

We are actively pursuing to add Dionex IC Empower control. Discussions are underway but no dates are currently available.

Best regards

Dot

JBarnes2112

I’m curious about this, because I just had a conversation with some folks at Dionex. They stated, quite emphatically, that Waters has had the control codes for Dionex IC instruments for “years” (their words not mine). They also said that Waters wrote drivers for their LC systems, but they were “terrible”. So they decided to rewrite them themselves (including a whole lot of Chromeleon code I see). But for IC drivers, they said that it was up to Waters to write them for Empower (i.e., Dionex had no plans to write them).

Now this stands in direct contrast to information provided by Waters. So the questions I have: Dose Waters have the control codes? If so are you planning to write the drivers for Dionex ICs? If so why do you say Dionex won’t give them to you?

Speaking for myself, and it appears many others, having Dionex IC support would be a huge benefit for us. Of course this may be a mute point now that Dionex is part of Thermo, is part of Fisher. Hopefully they will finally drop their Apple-esque proprietary streak, and do what we want all hardware vendors to do (including Waters) – be software independent!

kjbu

Hi, just an update :

We are planning to install an Chromeleon C/S-system at our site this autumn. This may be the first phase of converting from Empower to Chromeleon, just because of an increasing amount of IC's

Running 2 chromatographic C/S systems are not an ideal solution, and when Chromeleon is the only system supporting all our instruments it's obvious which system will be chosen

In other words : Waters, we need drivers for Dionex IC's !  At least a timeframe if/when it's planned !

Please give this message to the top management taking these decisions.

Best regards,

- kjbu

PhilK

Hello,

Waters Empower Chromatography Data Systems have and currently do support multi-vendor , multi-technique control – it been a long term strategy of Waters Corporation extending a trend that began in the late 1980s with the support of the Agilent 5890 gas chromatograph. Waters's multi-vendor instrument control capabilities for Empower3 CDS now include support for 15 vendors with over 200 instruments. This includes LC vendors such as Agilent, Shimadzu, Hitachi, Dionex, Waters and GC Vendors including Agilent, Shimadzu, PerkinElmer and Varian. We’ve recently added new control for ACQUITY H-Class, Thar SFC and Beckman CE.

There are two important facts to highlight:

• OIP or Open Instrument Portal is an instrument driver control framework that can be leverage by software partners of Waters and allows instrument vendors to write an Empower CDS driver. This provides a common platform to introduce new instruments with a standard user interface within Empower software for our customers.
  
  
• Native software control codes do not need to be exchanged – the instrument vendor writes the OIP driver and Waters simply audits the process of quality systems to ensure consistency prior to introduction. We have neither received or need driver codes for any system.
  
  

Waters Corporation’s goal is to continue to grow and diversify the number of systems and techniques supported within Empower - this includes the addition of Ion Chromatography systems. We have been in collaborative discussions with all the major IC vendors including ThermoFisher/Dionex, and these discussions have been productive – I am hopeful that this goal will be realized in the coming months with new drivers for IC being introduced. This is a collaborative process but the driver availability of these IC systems is ultimately the instrument vendor – Waters is highly supportive to see these come to fruition.

Kind regards

Phil

Business & Partnership Development

kjbu

Thank you very much for this information

JBarnes2112

Yes, thank you very much for this information. So to clarify if we wanted a particular instrument vendor (e.g., Dionex) to support Empower, it would specifically be the vendor’s responsibility to add that support for us. From your side it seems that Waters has made the process as open and as easy as possible. Just want to know that I’m directing my frustration in the right direction (i.e., that Dionex can’t blame Waters for not supporting their ICs on Empower).

I would also add that from an end user perspective it is becoming increasingly difficult to manage and support the wide varieties of different data systems, data formats, and instruments. Open data formats, open instrument drivers, will have to become the norm in the industry – not the exception. We can simply no longer afford the resources needed to support all of these different systems. In the end, whoever shares best will win.

PhilK

Hi

As I mentioned Open Instrument Portal is an instrument driver control framework that can be leverage by software partners of Waters and allows instrument vendors to write an Empower CDS driver.  This involves a couple of reviews and discussions between the vendor and Waters to ensure:

1. the technology and age of the instrument is compatible and lends itself to control/acquisition within the Empower environment
   
2. the instrument vendor is willing to investment in resources and training required to become proficient at writing OIP drivers
   
3. there is the business demand on both sides
   

As I mentioned, Waters Corporation’s goal is to continue to grow and diversify the number of systems and techniques supported within Empower and highly supportive to see these come to fruition.  We have been discussing control of Dionex systems for some time between our organizations.                It was a business decision by the Dionex team to prioritize the OIP control of the Ultimate 3000 LC last year, which is now an instrumnt that can e controlled within Emower. I will be very pleased to see Dionex IC control added.

If I can help further, please don't hesitate to le me know

Kind regards

Phil

kjbu

Hi !

I've got a respose from Dionex that does not tell the same story as Waters.

One of the managers of Dionex (USA) say that the collaboration between Waters and Dionex developing IC-drivers for Empower was going well until last year, when Dionex was acquired by Thermo. Then Waters broke this collaboration and has been standing still after that. Dionex want to create these drivers, but is not able without Waters.

Appearently Houston have a problem

It is strange for me why Waters don't want to create IC-drivers, Waters won't loose any business by doing this.

Please check it up.

- kjbu

PhilK

Hi

I cannot really comment on speculative discussion you may have had.   What I can reiterate is Waters Corporation’s goal is to continue to grow and diversify the number of systems and techniques supported within Empower - this includes the addition of Ion Chromatography systems.   We have been in collaborative discussions with all the major IC vendors including ThermoFisher/Dionex, and these discussions have been productive.

Clearly any acquisition process slows or stops other relte processes while the details are worked through, however, I am still engaged with the senior management team at Dionex post Thermo-acquisition and our discussions and collaborative process have continued - I am certinly positive that this goal will be realized in the coming months with new drivers for IC being introduced.

OIP or Open Instrument Portal is an instrument driver control framework that can be leverage by software partners of Waters and allows instrument vendors to write an Empower CDS driver.  This framework was designed with a  ‘printer-driver’ model in mind where each individual vendor writes their driver. As long as the pint-driver follows MS guidelines, it is that specific driver that you load when you buy a printer. Microsoft does not write each printer-driver just supports these under Windows protocols. 

This is a strategy Waters is comitted to suporting and makes instrument drivers independent of core software so when instruments are updated or new instruments are added, there is flexibility for the instrument vendor and Empower customers to add these easily.

Kind regards

Phil

kjbu

Any news regarding instrument drivers for Dionex IC's ?

- Regards,

kjbu

PhilK

Thanks for the note.

I have continued a dialog with the Dionex develpment team in Germany and can reaffirm two things for you:

• Waters comittment to provide the technology and tools that will allow Dionex to develop the Ion Chromatography drivers for Empower software.
  
• Dionex openness to the process of developing Empower drivers for both their LC's and IC's.
  

My expectations for the discussions I have had with Dionex is that there is a possibility that 2012 will see the introduction of the first Dionex IC driver within Empower software - and both Dionex and Waters will sell that Instrument driver for Empower.  Subsequent releases of additional Ion Chromatographs both from Dionex and other vendors are planned.

I hope this helps give you the update you sought.

Kind regards

Phil

burgerr

Hi Phil

I have a question to your statement:

Is this a valid anser for Empower2 as well?

Regards Reinhard

PhilK

Hi Reinhard

As I understand from my discussions wih the Dionex team, thier goal is to develop, test and submit IC drivers for both Empower2 and 3. My expectatons are we will have both.  We have supplied both Empower software versions to Dionex specificlly for the test and evauation stage.

Kind regards

Phil

kjbu

Hi Phil

Any news about these Dionex IC-drivers? Still a possibility of introduction in 2012?

Best regards

sat

HI Phill

Whats the status of Dionex IC drivers for empower2.?

And what about Metrohm IC?

Please get back.

We still believe in Waters can do any thing.

Waters it self is telling every thing is possible.

Regards

SATYA

peteck2007

We are also very interested to get an IC driver for Dionex - whats the current status? Any steps forward yet - appart from further productive discussions I mean? 

Dot

Hello,

For information on these instrument drivers and support with Empower 2 and 3, you should contact Dionex.

Regards

Dot